The world we live in is often a little bit different than what we believe it to be. Inviting you to keep an open mind, Klee Irwin takes us into a shift in belief and understanding of what reality is and the implications it has on us. A businessman-turned-physicist who is on a personal mission to raise consciousness on the planet through scientific breakthroughs, Klee lets us on his knowledge about hacking reality through understanding how quantum mechanics connect with Einstein’s theory of space and time. He breaks down a non-local version of reality, the observer effect in quantum physics, energy production, the code theoretic axiom, and more. Addressing as well how we have become a nation in mental and physical pain, Klee explores CBD and breaks down the different states of consciousness, believing that this one plant molecule can help us avoid a possible meltdown.

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Exploring A Non-Local Version Of Reality Across Time And Space With Klee Irwin

I’m going to share a story with you that I have never shared publicly before. I’ve shared it with a couple of close friends, but it’s one of those things where you’re nervous about sharing it because of how weird it sounds and this is an experience I had several months ago. If you’ve ever been to a sensory deprivation float tank, you’ll know what I’m talking about. If you haven’t been, imagine getting in this big, black box that’s filled with magnesium saltwater. The idea is there’s probably about twelve inches of water in this black box that’s super saturated with magnesium salt so you feel weightless. You’re super buoyant and you’re weightless while you’re lying in this water. You are completely closed off from the outside world.

Once you open the door and you step in, you lay down in the water and you’re completely buoyant. You close the door and it’s pitch black. You cannot tell the difference between your eyes being open or your eyes being closed. You can’t see fingers in front of your face. They have you put on earplugs before you get in. The box itself that you’re in is very soundproof, but you also put in earplugs to remove that sense as much as you can. What you’re left with is what I would describe as a womb-like experience where all of your senses are shut off or severely dampened. What you’re left with is this deep meditative experience of being there, being present with your mind and your thoughts and what’s going on.

These types of facilities are popping up all over LA, I assume over the US as well. The place I go to, the standard float is a two-hour float. You get in this box and you lay there for two hours. I was going in the evening and I signed up for a 7:00 PM timeslot. They do a 6:30 and a 9:00. I went in there with the mindset that I am not going to move a muscle. I am not going to think about getting out of this until someone comes and tells me my time is up. That was the mindset I got into the center of deprivation float tank with. For the first hour to two hours that I was in there, my mind was racing. All these thoughts were coming up. I was like, “I can feel something in the toe.” I was trying to trace my thoughts, my body experiences and look at them as you would like an observer.

It was one step removed to looking at what’s happening to your body and to your brain. It was probably after about two hours where I stopped feeling like I was perceiving my thoughts from the inside. It felt like there were no more thoughts coming from inside of me. It felt like almost they were flowing through me from outside of me and through me and all over, almost like popcorn thoughts from every which direction. While I was in this heightened state of pure awareness, I remember someone telling me if you can hold to that awareness and let the rest of you fall asleep, you can get triggered into this interesting state of altered consciousness. I let that happen and pretty soon I felt like I lost consciousness for a second. When I came back, I felt like I was floating away from myself inside of this chamber. It felt like I was 5 or 6 feet above my physical body, but also seven different layers in between but also in the water at the same time.

My body was so violently vibrating that the water was shaking and ultimately it shook me out of whatever experience was happening. It was one of those experiences that makes you start to question if what you believe is true. The reason I tell this story is because our guest had a similar experience with his son where he was forced to start wondering, “Is what I believe true?” He was able to start pursuing that from a very scientific perspective. You are going to enjoy this conversation we had. Keep an open mind. I know Klee Irwin will re-emphasize to keep an open mind, but in my experience, especially through meditation, the world that we believe is oftentimes a little bit different than what we believe. If we keep an open mind, stay open to experiences, trying things out, exploring and being open to possibilities, some cool and interesting stuff can happen.

Klee, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Good. I’m happy to be here.

We talked a little bit and you got me excited because it sounds like you have this interesting knowledge of a lot of different subjects and I’ll let that be the hint. In your own words, describe to our readers and community who you are and what you’re up to.

I’m a businessman turned physicist. I grew a business called Irwin Naturals for fifteen years starting when I was in my twenties. We became a pretty big company. I quit several years ago to do fundamental physics full-time, which is trying to hack reality, trying to understand how quantum mechanics connect with Einstein’s theory of space and time, which is the Holy Grail of fundamental physics. String theory is an attempt to do that, for example. We’ve got about a staff of probably twenty people, a lot of PhD physicists and mathematicians. We are making a lot of exciting progress.

AIH 73 | Non-Local Version Of Reality Non-Local Version Of Reality: The very essence of quantum mechanics is exactly non-locality that a thing happens here and can be connected to a thing that happens over there, even in another time.


About a few years ago, I started becoming aware of CBD. It was strange to me at first because I have a lot of background selling plant medicines, herbal extracts that can help health in various ways. I had never seen anything like CBD. I wanted to probate scientifically to understand if it was as miraculous as people were making it sound. The deeper I looked into it, the more I found that I came to believe that this one plant molecule can help our nation avoid a possible meltdown. We can talk a little bit about what’s the meltdown and why could this one thing be the tipping factor. It’s a strong statement. I developed all this thinking on it.

I wrote a book called Pain Nation. The subtitle of Pain Nation is Sick, Stressed, and all F*cked Up: Is CBD the Cure? We’re a nation in mental and physical pain. We may be on the brink of getting worse and a meltdown. It’s scary out there. Forty-five thousand people died alone from prescription opioid overdose and it’s getting worse. I split my time between keeping the fundamental physics group moving, going and engaged with progress. We’ve got this Blues Brothers mission from God to get CBD to the nation at this time of need, at as low a price as possible because it’s very expensive. Therefore, it’s not accessible to the bottom 20% of income earners in this country. It’s philanthropic-minded. Whether it’s business and CBD or the fundamental physics, my motivations are about raising consciousness on the planet.

You said you were a businessman turned physicist. Was there a life event or a catalyst to spur that shift?

It was very spooky, weird and the type of thing I would have been skeptical of if it was anybody but myself experiencing it. Several years ago, I was a good-natured, materialist atheist. That is anything that would be sounding new age-y or woo-woo, metaphysical, psychic phenomena, any of that. I was a sheep with a larger herd of sheep of scientifically-minded people who think that those types of thoughts are primitive and wishful thinking. I had this break with my old model of reality when I saw my son at nine years old be able to do the things that shouldn’t be possible. He could get information without his ears or his eyes. He could take his consciousness and move it to a different location and get information there. That was hard for me to believe when he claimed he could do that. I tested him and presuming that my son could not be so deviously maniacal that he could trick me like a magician. I had to adjust my view of what reality was.

Will you give us an example of what your son was experiencing and your reaction to it?

By that point several years ago, I had begun working on fundamental physics. I had quit my job as an entrepreneur to work full-time as a theoretical physicist and started hiring scientists to team up with me. I went on this vacation with my mother, my two kids and my wife. We were in this vacation rental and my mom used to practice meditation years ago. I had read about how meditation can help with focus and creative thoughts. You can gather your thoughts in and focus. I thought that would be helpful for me. I asked my mom to do a little class for me and my wife. My sister came and my older daughter came as well. My nine-year-old, Haley, wants to join us. I said, “No way, Jose. You’re going to distract my mom’s class. We’re trying to learn something. It’s going to be boring and you’re going to try to play with your sister.”

I locked him out of that little class. Afterwards, he approached me and said, “Can you teach it to me now?” I said, “Are you serious about that? No problem.” I tried to tell him a couple of things that my mom said about meditating and it was dumbed down for him. He ends up closing his eyes, inventing his own style and claims that with his consciousness, he could leave his body and move around. I thought that was ridiculous and I said, “Do you mind if I test you?” I went into another room of the house, left him sitting there and I tried to do something random.

AIH 73 | Non-Local Version Of Reality Non-Local Version Of Reality: By having CBD in your bloodstream, your alpha and theta will be more appropriately balanced with your beta.


I went into a bathroom quite far away from where he was sitting. It was a very big property that we rented. I found an old basket of about 50 old pens, markers and pencils. I reached in and I randomly grabbed one and set it on the upper left side of the sink. I go back to where he was. I said, “Tell me what I did in the bathroom.” Three seconds later he opens his eyes and said, “You pulled a red marker out of a basket and put it on the left side of the sink.” I couldn’t believe it because I had my opinions about what was real and what was not. In this reality, I had my opinions and it violently contradicted my opinions, which meant it had to have been a fluke.

Taking a soft gel with CBD oil is like meditation in a pill. Click To Tweet

He guessed. I don’t know how he did it, but anything’s possible. It’s not something mystical or that didn’t meet my physical view. I tested him over and over again until he convinced me that he could do this. I believe that there’s something about fundamental physics that has to explain that. I asked him, “How do you do that?” He says, “What I do is I sit there as you told me, cross my legs and close my eyes. I imagine that I’m over my body looking at myself closing my eyes and crossing my legs. It’s not real because I’m just imagining it.” He pauses almost for a fact and says, “It then becomes real and I can feel when it does. I then can move around like a ghost.”

That was a necessary break because I could read peer-reviewed published studies about psychic phenomena. My best friend tells me that it’s real and that they had a personal experience with it. Nothing would shift my sheep mentality of the materialist view. I say sheep because I didn’t personally try to think it through very carefully. I didn’t go out and try to study the literature and the contrary view to my view. I didn’t critically think about it. I just went along with the scientific crowd. That was the beginning of my readjustment of what reality is. I found that I could do these things like Haley was doing and that anybody can.

I found out that there’s a plethora of solid scientific study published, stuff that shows that these phenomena, which we call in a geeky way, non-local information access. Haley was getting that information about the red marker non-locally that is not relative to some sound waves or light waves that were hitting his body locally. The ten-year journey ensued and we started realizing that in fact, quantum mechanics seems to demand this non-locality. It’s the status quo view of quantum mechanics. The least controversial agreed upon consensus is that the very essence of quantum mechanics is exactly non-locality, that a thing happens here can be connected to a thing that happens over there, even in another time, such that the whole edifice of reality may be a neural network of these non-local connections that cross time and space.

I want to go a little bit more into that, but it sparked a memory of mine. I was reading a study, and I forget when and where I read this, but they did a study where they took someone’s cells from their body, kept them alive and took them some distance away. What they ended up doing was they exposed the person to different emotional stimuli: scared them, made them laugh, made them smile. What they noticed was that the cells they had taken from the person, however many miles away were responding in real-time. Meaning they were responding faster than the speed of light, which I’m sure you’ve known is the common speed limit that’s placed on everything. When they did this test, they realized, “This is happening faster than that and that’s spooky.”

It’s fully allowed and accepted by scientists. In about 2014, the first experimental result was published on what was already known to be true, which is that you can take a particle and get it to team up with another particle. That’s called quantum entanglement. We know how to make two particles quantum-entangle. Quantum mechanics demands that once they’re entangled, you can separate these two particles in time. If you changed the state of one of them, you would change the state of the other in the future or the past. That was already believed to be true even before the experimental proof by the consensus of scientists. When it was proven, it was no big surprise to most people. The very nature of reality is this non-local entanglement concept. This view of a classical world, which is the world we think of before quantum mechanics is an illusion that approximates out from vast interactions of these more foundational or fundamental non-local connections like the entanglements.

To a lot of people reading this, it is probably this crazy idea to try and wrap their heads around, myself included at times. How do we take knowledge like this? Let’s assume all of this knowledge that we’re learning is the truth. How do we then take that as an individual and apply that to our lives in a meaningful way?

I can tell you how you can come at it from a perspective of technology and material science. First, I’ll tell you how you can come at it from a perspective such as the one that you’re interested in, which is mindfulness, meditation, ideas of improving, expanding your awareness and knowledge through consciousness behaviors and yoga. The first thing is to not be a sheep. That is when you hear some of these yoga practitioners talking about ideas that may sound woo-woo to you. It’s better to not go with the crowd and presume that those ideas are not possible. It’s better to say, “Maybe they’re possible. I don’t think science knows yet.”

That is the reality. Science doesn’t know yet whether those ideas are possible. If you wanted to go one step further, you could say, “Because I believe that this non-local reality is the very core of existence, even though scientists haven’t figured out how to understand it beyond two-particle interactions.” How do you understand this non-local notion between two huge ensembles of particles in the form of two human beings, which are separated in time or space and yet seem to have an instantaneous connection or sharing of information or influence upon one another? That is what gave me enough of a plausibility structure in my head where I could shift from where I was several years ago to what happened in the last several years because I saw that this stuff could be true.

You get into a high alpha state when you meditate. Click To Tweet

I started doing mindfulness practices that totally improved my life and my health physically and mentally. Life is more fun. It only came by shifting my viewpoint about what I thought physics was and was not. That’s one way you could apply it. Applying it to technology, this stuff that we’re working on ties into bizarre new forms of computation called quantum computing, which is not faster computers. It’s an entirely different notion of it. In fact, it’s so different from the notion that the word ‘computer’ has too much baggage. These quantum computers are more akin to neural networks than they are to the idea of what we know classic computers to be. That’s one thing that we’re looking into. The other is energy production.

Energy production in general?

It’s a specific form of low energy nuclear reactions. Normally it takes a lot of energy to get two particles to fuse and give you some helpful energy that you could use to make electricity. It’s not worth it. It’s like spending $99.99 to get $0.01 of profit. It’s not worth the effort. Nuclear fusion in the classic canonical sense isn’t as economical as burning coal or oil. We could figure out how to get two nuclei to fuse without having to collide them violently into one another, which would cost a lot of energy. You want to do it with lower energy, spend less and get more. That’s what our physics gives some implications as to how one can use material science and chemistry to create energy in the form of low energy nuclear reactions to create cheap, clean electricity for the world.

I’m going to bring us back to more focused around health. What I’m hearing is that this shift in belief and the shift in understanding of what reality is has huge implications not just for health but also for all of the different ways that we’re interacting and all of the technologies we’re using. You hinted at talking about the disconnection between CBD and mindfulness. Do you want to go a little bit deeper into that and why you’re so excited about CBD?

Taking a soft gel with CBD oil is like meditation in a pill. Why is that? It starts with understanding your own consciousness. Any thought or emotion or state of mind that you have is a signature in the electromagnetic spectrum in your skull. That’s a pattern made painted with four colors. These four paints are four different categories of wavelengths. A short wavelength would be shorter and long wavelength would be a longer, slower sound. You need to paint with all these different wavelengths to create these complicated patterns of states of consciousness. These are being measured with sophisticated EEG machines and computers to synthesize the data.

AIH 73 | Non-Local Version Of Reality Non-Local Version Of Reality: We’re connected to one another non-locally and we are connected to one another’s futures non-locally and pasts.


Science is creating computers that can read the electromagnetic spectrum of the thought of an apple versus the thought of love. That’s published in science-level stuff. These categories are called beta. That’s the choppy short wavelengths that can be good when there’s an emergency like you have to run from a predator. The next category is called alpha. Those are longer and are associated with scoring higher on creative problem-solving tests. They’re associated with mindfulness. You get into a high alpha state when you meditate or play with puppies or go for a walk in the park.

You can't hold knowledge without being conscious to add meaning to that knowledge. Click To Tweet

From what I’ve listened to and heard over the years is they generally associate alpha right on the cusp of where you’re going next, the alpha-theta flow state.

Theta is even longer than alpha and it’s even more chilled out. Theta is not as much of a walk in the park as it is some deep meditation in a cave to get your theta high. The next category, which is the longest, is delta. It puts you to sleep. In any given moment, like both of us, we are this fluctuating ratio between all four of those categories creating complicated signatures that we experience as states of mind and thought. Today is a weird time. I don’t want to move to nature and be off the grid and walk around all day. I want to do a mission. I want to do something to help the world. To do that, I need to be plugged in. I need to be connected to my network, which means I’ve got to use electronics and computers. I need to be pushing. That’s my choice to live in this exponentially accelerating society.

That’s not how I was designed over the million years of evolution that Homo sapiens have been around. We designed our ancestors to lay around most of the time relaxing and only occasionally to jump into action to run from a predator or try to get some food, but that’s inverted. I don’t even relax at night. I’ll watch Game of Thrones or something that my body and mind perceive is quite stressful. I’ll be in business. I’ll be in calls. I have to stay on point on this and not slur my words. Everything is constantly on. What happens is being on like that all the time constantly drives up your ratio of theta brainwaves. At the cost, as far as the ratio of the mindfulness flow state of your alpha and theta. CBD through clinical studies is shown to increase our alpha and beta brainwaves. You can be in the middle of New York City, all else being equal with whatever your mindfulness abilities are. By having CBD in your bloodstream, your alpha and theta will be more appropriately balanced with your beta.

I love this description because it breaks it down into these different states of consciousness. In the work that I used to do, as a trainer, one of the systems we had for assisting people in meditation was designed to induce theta state. It is this state of mind, in my experience and knowledge, that’s tapping into more of our subconscious. We learned from another guest on the show where he said, “The subconscious brain is able to process twenty million bits of data every second versus the conscious brain is only able to process 40.” There’s this huge disparity between what we’re able to access simply by the state of mind we’re in.

The psychic ability stuff we talked about at the beginning, many scientists who study this in a rigorous way have evidence to show that when you increase your beta levels and to a degree your alpha, you improve your performance on standardized psychic ability tests. Apparently having a better brainwave signature pattern with nicer, long way connects you non-locally through quantum mechanics to this greater information sphere that we’re in.

To me, instead of information coming from within you, it’s allowing yourself to open up to what’s beyond you. I’ve had that experience very pronounced in a meditation. Have you ever been in a float tank?

I’ve got a float tank. I want to start using it again. What happened with your experience?

I go in every once in a while. I probably do it once every few months because I go to a place that does two-hour floats. I signed up for a two-hour float late in the evening. There was no one after me. I went in with this mindset of, “I’m not going to move anything until someone comes and gets me.” I was dead set. I wasn’t going to move a muscle. I was just going to ride it out. What happened was, first, you need to go through this process in longer meditations when your mind is busy and active. The work I usually do is you’re trying to become the observer and let your thought train run its course. What happened for me is after my internal thought train ran its course, I didn’t stop having thoughts, but the feeling that came was I stopped having thoughts from within me. It was almost as if thoughts were flowing from beyond me and through me but in these little blips in moments. I totally got lost in there and got to a point where I was like, “I think I’m good.” No one ever came and got me. I got out and I’d been in there for four hours.

How long did it seem to you that it was?

It seemed like I had been in there for a good while, maybe an hour or an hour and a half, but definitely not four hours because you get into that state of mind, this theta state that you’re talking about and you lose sense of space and time.

Thank you for motivating me. I got this float tank and I got lazy like someone buying a jet ski and they never use it. I started thinking, “What’s going on in my country? What’s going on in the rest of the world? What’s going on with all these apocalypse movies?” I got weird combinations of thoughts. I said, “What’s the connection between electing Trump and zombie movies?” If you go to Google Analytics and you want to know what the world is thinking, look at the trend maps of over a two-year period of a search term, a random thing, meditation. You can understand how the world is thinking about meditation by how many times they search it.

We are connected over time such as you, according to this form of quantum mechanics, are influencing another. Click To Tweet

You can also understand what is on people’s minds fear-wise or hope-wise based on trends in movies. I started noticing all the apocalypse movies that come in the flavor of zombie viral apocalypse, nuclear apocalypse, asteroid, societal meltdown, global warming, like in Waterworld. I’m thinking, “There’s a lot of them.” The zombie ones are one to look at how many in the last few years versus the previous years. I thought, “Probably it’s because everybody feels like there’s less elbow room,” not exactly because of the population increase because that hasn’t been so extreme. What has been the most extreme is the ultra-rapid connectivity. There can be shooting in a Berlin nightclub and within minutes somebody will have a 4K video from their iPhone uploaded to YouTube and the whole world will know about that event.

The good, the bad and the ugly are all hyper-connected giving us this sense of the greater amplitude of the scary stuff that’s going on out there. There’s always scary stuff but what people seem to realize is that things are getting better according to almost every metric that you can imagine, from human rights to what clean water access to the ozone pollution, to carbon emissions. Everything is trending; education, information access, human health as measured through the lifespan. I’m looking and I’m thinking, “Everybody’s freaked out about it.” The world going to hell in a handbasket and the elbow room crushing in and the apocalypse memes, is that going to mess us up? Is that going to manifest us going to hell in a handbasket?

It very much will by any logical thinking. For example, if you’re committed to the theory that you’re going to get into a big argument with your mom when you go visit her and you’re obsessing over it in the car, you’re not going to be creatively obsessing over all of the ways that you could have conversations with her where you don’t get into a blow-up. That’s a normal thing, but at a more spooky quantum mechanical level because we know from quantum mechanics experience and experiments that the observer effect is the core aspect of reality that when the observer knows which slit the particles are going through, physics behaves completely different than when the observer doesn’t know. It has nothing to do with the physical interaction of the observation equipment.

Will you explain to everyone reading who is not a quantum physicist what the observer effect is?

Before the double-slit experiment, we viewed reality as what was called the clockwork universe. It is a notion that a god or something outside the universe created a bunch of things floating around in space particles. They interact and they interact in a very deterministic way, like dominoes falling over where if you knew the starting condition of some physical process and you could follow all the steps in between. You could predict exactly how it’s going to happen every time. Quantum mechanics comes along and turns that view into a completely false antiquated view. What is going on is that particles are not behaving classically. They’re dancing around non-locally where one thing is affecting something in the past and in the future very far away.

Even worse than that weirdness is for those who struggle over understanding there’s even a harder problem. How is it that the very conscious abstract awareness of a physical measurement as shown in the double-slit experiment changes the physics of what happens. That basically was discovered when you fire particles in the direction of a metal plate that has two slits in it and you’re pointing it right in the middle and things move around and are imprecise. There’s a 50/50 probability that when you shoot it from your particle gun, it could go through either of the two slits. From there, it projects onto a projection screen on the other side of the particle gun and these two slits separator.

What happens is we repeatedly shoot electrons one at a time at this double slit. It builds up an interference pattern on the screen as though there’s some strange waveform interaction. It’s not what classic physics would project. Classic physics would project that it’s a black can of spray paint and you’ve got a white wall. You’d get a metal plate with two slits in it and you spray it three inches from the two slits. What you’d see on the other on the wall are two stripes. This interference pattern is deeply about what this whole non-locality and weirdness of quantum mechanics are.

That weirdness is fine. Why is it that when an observer can have knowledge of which slit the particles are going through each time they’re fired from the gun, all of a sudden, this interference pattern completely disappears. If the observer doesn’t have the knowledge, it goes back to the way it was and the interference pattern disappears. It goes to the two slip things that I described in the classic case. That’s called the measurement problem in quantum mechanics. It’s never been resolved. All we know is that it’s an empirical fact and it’s not very controversial. It’s known that only when you have knowledge of it and what is knowledge. Knowledge seems to be something that rocks don’t do, but that I do. My standard poodle, Red, does it because he gets the knowledge that I’m going to give him a treat if he does something I asked him to do. He remembers that knowledge and acts on it.

Humans, we traffic in higher-level knowledge. It has something to do with consciousness because you can’t hold knowledge without being conscious of adding meaning to that knowledge. Therefore, one has to say what is consciousness. Nobody can satisfactorily answer that question. We know things that it does. We can agree that consciousness thinks. Consciousness can be aware of things. Consciousness can see differences between things. Consciousness can have free will. It can choose what to think about. Other than what it does, it’s hard to put your finger on it and speak deeply about what it is. Whatever it is, it has something to do with the very fabric of reality at a deep, geeky mathematical level.

AIH 73 | Non-Local Version Of Reality Pain Nation: Sick, Stressed, and All F*cked Up: Is CBD the Cure?

I’m going to put this in my simple man’s version to make sure we’re all on the same page. What I hear in that is we don’t understand consciousness, but we acknowledge the fact that when there is a conscious observer, it is bringing shape to irregularity.

That or even safer. It’s changing physics. It changes what happens physically just by consciousness budding its nose into the picture.

The way I like to extrapolate that into how does this affect us all as human beings, my understanding of it is your thoughts, intentions, subconscious beliefs are all affecting what comes into your world and what you’re creating for yourself. If you are unaware of your thoughts, you’re having these repetitive thoughts that, “I’m going to get in an argument with my mom.” There’s a lot of stuff out there in the world talking about the Law of Attraction. You’re becoming a magnet in my words for the things that you think about and the feelings that you have.

We have a whole axiomatic and formal framework for this. It’s called the principle of efficient language and the code theoretic axiom. The code theoretic axiom says that reality is a geometric code playing itself out in codes, traffic and meaning. The pattern is meaning. The principle of efficient language says that the code is expressing its meaning in the most economical way statistically. It picks the paths according to what actions at the quantum mechanical level will give you the most meaning in the most economical way, computationally speaking.

Is it the path of least resistance then?

We call it the path of least computational action. When you’re dealing with code like C++ or DNA or English, one must decide first, what is the meaning I wish to express? I can talk about economical ways of expressing it. Haiku is a sub-language within English. We have English. We put more rules on it and we have this haiku form of poetry that we can use with English. We can say, “With that code of haiku, I’m going to decide first I want to express love or competition.” You’re going to write a haiku poem about that. You can do it in more and less efficient ways by following the rules. You can use double entendre and other clever things and get and get it to pack a lot of meaning in a very short number of words used in this restrictive code. If reality were a code, that’s the code theoretic axiom which is something one assumes because you can assume reality is orderly like that clockwork universe and it’s a deterministic algorithm playing out.

You can’t prove that. You have to assume it and make a choice. That’s an axiom. You can assume it’s random. It’s chaotic. There’s no order whatsoever. The order comes up for some reason in these self-organizing patterns or you could assume that at the smallest scales of reality, that it’s code theoretic and we have to discover the code like a spacetime code. The principle of efficient language says that the universe is conscious. That shouldn’t be hard to believe if you slow down and think it through. One has to start by saying, “Are they conscious?” Most materialist people like I was who don’t believe in anything interestingly metaphysical, at least most of them believe they are conscious. If you say, “How did it happen?”

They’d say, “Nobody knows, but whatever happened, it’s through a vastly complex self-organization of quarks, electrons, photons and neutrinos.” They self-organized into this almost non-computably complex system of a person in their human consciousness. You could say, “Isn’t that a bunch of particles, mass, photon and light that self-organized and you became ridiculously conscious?” We are ridiculously conscious. It seems weird. It’s not like we’re rocks. One could say, “You weigh 180 pounds and you’re a bunch of mass-energy and particles in the universe that’s self-organized into unit consciousness.

Are you the upper limit in the percentage of the energy that can self-organize into a consciousness? A rigorous mathematically-oriented physicist would be forced to admit no with physics as we know it in principle, given enough time, all mass and energy in the entire universe can self-organize into a vast consciousness, an entity which is conscious. We also know that separate entities that are conscious can team up in the networks. You’ve got all these little cells in your brain, your body and they’re all individual little guys living their lives, like little animals, not like a bacteria. They team up in these vast constellations where this emergent structure is floating on the ocean of their simpler behaviors. You could in principle have that with a bunch of humans that get linked up psychically through this non-local physics and then make it act as a uber consciousness.

You imagine the whole universe enough time to self-organize and that’s ahead of us. Think of that as forward of us in time. It eventually happens given enough time. That thing forward in time, if everything is retrocausal, that is things influence each other over time. Things are connected over time. That thing, if it’s smart enough to hold this simple code that we’re working on, which is basically a mathematical code. In principle, it has the ability to self-organize or self-actualize its own origin such that the beginning of the code’s running is embedded in the Omega point at its evolution because you need a substrate, something to hold this code. If somebody asks us, “Klee, where does this supposed plank scale fabric of reality space-time code live, this abstract math?”

The deeper I looked into it the more I found that I came to believe that this one plant molecule can help our nation avoid a possible meltdown. Click To Tweet

I would flippantly say, “It lives within the mind of God,” which I don’t view as a Judeo-Christian God, but this emergent collective consciousness that has to emerge eventually given enough time. They would say, “Where did that mind of God come from?” I’d say, “It evolved through the code from its own inception that it imagined from the beginning. I am a step along that evolutionary process. You wrap the beginning and the end into a circle such that the beginning is embedded in the end and the end is the substrate of the beginning and emerged from the steps all the way through, like the self-organization of DNA and societies and on and on.

To me, essentially what you’re getting at is that we are all connected in some deep foundational way?

It’s even better than that. We are connected over time such as you according to this form of quantum mechanics, you tomorrow are influencing your stuff today. That’s weird. It’s allowed and defines quantum mechanics. We’re connected to one another non-locally and we are connected to one another’s futures non-locally and pasts.

As you pointed out in the beginning of this, Klee, it’s something that came to you through experience. Experiencing reality in a different way is the focal point of beginning to accept and understand that. In my words, what’s happening is way more interesting than most of us are willing to believe. If you’re going to take away something from this as a reader, even if it doesn’t all resonate and it doesn’t all make sense, take away a call to action to be open to reality being different than you think it is.

As Klee’s experience with his son, be open to experiencing this non-local version of reality for yourself. In my eyes, the best way to do that is to start practicing meditation, start asking yourself the questions and start experimenting. Because if we open our minds to possibility and we start experimenting with what we’re thinking, how we’re feeling, you can see for yourself that as crazy as some of these ideas are, they play out experientially and you don’t have to understand the physics to feel that and to experience that. I got one more question for you before we roll out here. It’s when we ask everyone, and that’s what’s your inspiration?

My inspiration is love. I do this mission because I honestly love people. I love reality. I love this planet. I feel so lucky to be here. If we can make these ideas that come from meditation and mindfulness practices, scientifically the new reality blessed by the scientific community, a lot of people who are on the fence about it, they might view it as not helpful for them. They might be more open to look at it and start living a life of expanding their consciousness and serving others.

One more thing, how can people find your work, find you and get involved if they feel inspired too?

There are two websites. One is my name, The other place is we have a website called That shows a lot of work. We’ve got two movies that people would probably love on YouTube called What Is Reality and Hacking Reality. Millions of people have watched those and enjoyed those. That explains some of what we’re doing. It’s easy to watch like that movie, What The Bleep. It has a high production value. It’s entertaining. For CBD, we’ve got a website, Those are ways to connect with what I’m doing.

Thank you so much for taking the time, Klee. If you’re out there reading, this was probably one of the more deep scientific episodes we’ve done. Stay open-minded, go out, experience, be open-minded and curious. Thank you, Klee, for coming on. Until next time, we’ll see you.

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About Klee Irwin

AIH 73 | Non-Local Version Of Reality

Klee Irwin is an author, physicist and entrepreneur, who dedicates the majority of his time to Quantum Gravity Research (QGR), a research institute he founded in 2009. The mission of the organization is to discover the geometric first-principles unification of space, time, matter, energy, information and consciousness.

As the Director of QGR, Klee manages a dedicated team of mathematicians and physicists developing emergence theory. Since 2009, the team has published numerous papers and journal articles laying out some of the mathematical building blocks and axiomatic ideas for this unification model.

Klee is also the founder and owner of Irwin Naturals, an award-winning global natural supplement company providing alternative health and healing products sold in thousands of retailers ranging from Walmart to Whole Foods. Irwin Naturals is a long-time supporter of Vitamin Angels, which aims to provide lifesaving vitamins to mothers and children at risk of malnutrition thereby reducing preventable illness, blindness, and death and creating healthier communities.

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